'The citing process is a joke'

We have received plenty of reaction to Lote Tuqiri's tackle on All Black skipper Richie McCaw, with many readers questioning the judicial disparity between Saturday's incident and the one that ended Brian O'Driscoll's involvement with the 2005 British & Irish Lions. Here are a few of your views...

'A CLEAR CASE OF DOUBLE STANDARDS'

"What a dreadful pack of ignorant whingers have been entertaining themselves by posting reaction to the Tuqiri /McCaw incident on your site. Firstly, neither Henry, nor McCaw, have said too much about the incident or even complained about Tuqiri. Henry has stated that he expects to see his game-breakers targeted (as McCaw duly was by Waugh, who broke his nose, and Elsom who was relentlessly infringing all over the field during the same game) and merely wants to see this done in a legal fashion. McCaw has maintained a dignified silence and not pointed the finger at Tuqiri or anyone (compare that with O'Driscoll if you have to compare the two cases). Indeed, McCaw has stated that he doubts there was any malicious intent in the tackle, despite clear footage showing that it was as bad as such tackles get. Similarly, there was no intent in the tackle on O'Driscoll. He was unfortunate to be tackled by two men at once who each lifted a leg to pull him out of the tackle area (a common tactic used a lot in the Northern hemisphere), then dropped him at the request of the referee. Which is why the matter was not pursued by the ref— they did exactly as he instructed them, or by Venter, who had no clear footage of the incident to judge it. Umaga, it must be understood, is the same player who took himself out of an attacking move against Wales to put Colin Charvis in the recovery position when he was knocked out in a test match. Hardly the action of a thug. NZ has had some thuggish players in the past, such as Richard Loe. Umaga and Mealamu are certainly not in that mold, which cannot be said of a large contingent of players from the British Isles, France, Australia and the Republic."

- Andy (New Zealand)

"Time to move on folks. The clean out of O’Driscoll was at a maul so no illegality there."

"The tackle on McCaw on the other hand was deliberate and very illegal. Funny that the ref and the line umpires never saw it.

"Next time we have a ref from the Northern Hemisphere can you send us one who can keep up with the fast paced rugby we play down under.

- Gerry Portegys (New Zealand)
 
"Well, Well, well, it looks like the tables have turned last year the 'All Blacks' were calling Captain Brian O'Driscoll a winging little girl now that the tables have turned and their Captain is hurt there winging what a little "bunch of girls" they are now they are also a bunch of hypocrites.. 
 
"When Brian O'Driscoll was hurt last year everyone said that too much was made out of it and that nothing wrong had happened eh hello where those people watching the same game i was Brian O'Driscoll was Spear Tackled un-fairly and unnecessarily i mean he didn't even have the ball when Tana Umaga Keven Mealamu took O'Driscoll of his feet and hurled him to the ground, injuring him so badly that he didn't get back up off the ground and was unable to play rugby for six months meaning Ireland and Leinster lost a great Captain for those six months i mean what was done to Brian O'Driscoll was Assault and GBH, but still nothing was done about this and now as i said the tables have been turned and all hell has broken loose because yes the NEW ZEALAND captain has been injured but the difference is that Richie McGaw got back up and walked away un-injured and everyone is complaining about it for what didn't he get up and walk away Brian O'Driscoll didn't have that luxury last year he was too badly injured, and had to retire from the rest of the tour..
 
 "I don't think the New Zealand people understand that being a British and Irish Lions Captain is a once in a life time opportunity which Brian will prop ably never get again, you took a great man out of the game and it was completely un-necessary, to this stay i still can't believe that Umaga & Mealamu got away with it for the citing commissioner to turn a blind eye to this is a complete and utter disgrace, and now because its a New Zealand Captain murder. 
 
 "All i can say is WHY WASNT SOMETHING DONE!!!!  I also have to say even though i'm an Irish Rugby supporter "I FEEL SORRY FOR THE AUSTRALIAN player as he's been suspended for something that two other players got away with."  If i was Brian O'Driscoll i would be pretty annoyed right now at the thoughts of the Australian player being cited while the two New Zealand players walk away scot free.
 

- Laura (Dublin, Ireland)

"Tuqiri was only carrying out instructions from the coach (Connolly) It was obvious that the Wallabies were instructed to stop McCaw using any means available. That included stiff arm tackles , hence McCaws broken nose, and Tuqiri's spear tackle which came close to braking McCaws neck. And the Wallabies complain about the South Africans playing dirty. Tuqiri now has the crown for the games most vicious player.

"Congrats.

"Maybe coach Connolly should be suspended too. "

- Ray Nicholls

"I think Ed Rainger (Birmingham) should get off his high-horse. Most New Zealanders thought Tana and Kevin should have been punished, the fact that they weren't was no fault of their own. A week earlier one of the Lions players committed a spear tackle (D'Arcy), but nothing is heard of this as the UK media led frenzy surrounding the BOD incident drowned out any objectivity on the subject. Nzers have not cast aspersions on the players and country by saying any of these accidents were intentional. They are all illegal, and it is good that they are now being dealt with correctly and players are being punished. To think there is a conspiracy or that Nzers are any more violent than any other team really only shows ignorance."

"As for our PM's comments, she was asked on a radio talkback show and voiced her opinion. So what?"

- Andrew
 
 "I think the point being missed is no one can say exactly what happened with the O’Driscoll tackle as there is no reliable footage of it, all I’ve seen are some stills that indicate foul play but nothing conclusive on the landing. I suspect there was foul play but you can’t punish on suspicion alone. The McCaw tackle is captured fully by the camera’s so makes Venter’s job a lot easier, whether the recipient of a spear-tackle is injured or not is irrelevant.
 

"As a kiwi I think Tuqiri is unlucky. The tackle is no worse than the one D’Arcy carried out against the Maori, however with the O’Driscoll incident and the furore surrounding it still fresh in the memory, any spear-tackle is likely to be dealt with more severely than it would’ve in normal circumstances.
 
"I agree with Ed from Birmingham re; it being laughable the NZ prime minister getting involved, however it’s unfair to paint all New Zealanders as sanctimonious bleaters. I don’t think all British and Irish are whiners, even after the diversionary efforts of Sir Clive, Campbell, O’Sullivan and O’Driscoll during the Lions tour."
 
- Craig Robinson
 
"I'm a kiwi living in Dublin and I feel Tuqiri has been handed a very tough ban, 11 weeks. How can you justify that ?"
 
"Anyone who has played the game knows that when you enter a tackle situation off balance, as McCaw did, and the momentum is with the tackler, Tuqiri in this case, the tackler will always have the forward driving momentum. McCaw just didn't enter the tackle with the correct weight momentum and distribution when trying to bump off Tuqiri Sure McCaw ended up on his head/shoulders, but that's rugby, it's a physical contact sport. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone dangerous play but it's just one of those situations that happens in rugby.
 
"If the IRB are handing down 11 weeks for this, that I hate to bring it up, what about the O'Driscoll affair ? Same situation in my books isn't it......
 
"To sign off, Bledisloe and Tri-nations champions already. Great work fella's. Good luck in SA.
 
- Brad Santo (Kiwi in Dublin)

"I was really amused to see one of the All Black's "hard men" making such a meal of it after Tuqiri dumped him , McCaws milking of the incident would have done him proud on a football pitch, not to say Hollywood."

"Rugby is a MANS game and not one  for wussies, where oh where, are the latter day Colin Meades' of All Black rugby?

"Tuqiri should maybe have gotten a yellow card, the punishment he has received is way over the top.

"The Kiwis are whinging just as loud if not louder than the Poms did when O'Driscoll got dumped, and thats saying something!" 

- Cobus (South African living in the UK)

"Now honestly, can someone please turn off the constant complaints re O´Driscoll getting it from Umaga and Mealamu. Get on with your lives.
Someone gets a tough going in rugby, thats a fact of life. Last time Brian O' Driscoll, this time McCaw. Okay, McCaw did not get hurt, but that could have easily happened. At least afterwards Richie did not make a complete fool of himself acting like a cry-baby like O' Driscoll did.

"These things are dangerous, yes, but they happened before the Lions Tour and will continue to happen after this years Tri-Nations.
As far as the citing is concerned - people should appreciate that Venter eventually learned his lesson and now goes for suspensions rather than ignoring the incident. That is an improvement, a step forward.

"As to the 11 weeks ban - people should read newspapers more carefully. Yes, its 11 weeks, but effectively only one Test match - and Tuqiri already announced that he would have not played in Club matches before the end of year tour. So, where is the problem, what is the big deal. Northern Hemisphere, stop whinging, please, pretty please!"

- Robert Instinsky (Frankfurt)

"Only 11 weeks? 11 matches should have been more like it. I thought that sort of dirty play was restricted to the Springboks; the Aussies showed that they too are capable of all sorts of cheap shots. That kind of aggression is not their natural style, and will not lift them out of the abyss they seem to be slipping into.

"That being said, there is definitely a double standard with the citing commissioner. If citing official Willem Venter let Tana & Mealamu get away with their more dangerous throw of Bryan O' Driscoll, he should have been fired as a citing commissioner a long time ago."

- Bernard Bigirwa (Uganda)

"How much more All Black butt licking must the rest of the rugby world endure before the Laws and fair play are applied equally to ALL. (Dummy Runners / Obstruction / Foul Play)
 
"Everyone knew that NZ would get the 2011 World Cup months before the official announcement regardless of the fact that NZ had the worst infrastructure and smallest stadia out of all the competing nations; the spear tackle by Umaga and Mealamu on Brian O'Driscoll was totally ignored; Jerry Collin's attempted scalping of George Smith was totally ignored etc. etc.
 
"Seems all you have to do now is to wear the Black Shirts & Silver Fern and be able say Fush & Chups convincingly, even if you originate from Tonga, Samoa, Fiji etc. and you can do no wrong - even if you have ! May as well give the AB's the World Cup right now - nobody will be allowed to say or do anything against them."
 
- Roger Naish (UK)

"He got what he deserved for playing the man and not the game and Tana should have been also banned for a similar time frame in the O' Driscoll affair. However it was only after that incident last year with all the Lions spin-doctoring was it pointed out to the world that this sort of play is unacceptable.

"Australia lost Saturdays test match due to trying to out muscle NZ opposed to playing rugby. In other words they weren’t clever enough.

"Just remember McCaw is the victim not Tuqiri. New Zealand did not personnally give him his punishment. That was decided by himself when he decided to lift McCaw then drive him into the ground.

"Every player in the world must know after O’Driscoll gate you tackle a player like that you will be punished?"

 - Graham Watson (New Zealand)
 
"The All Blacks will soon be known as the All Babes if they cry foul over actions done to them that they have done to others."
 
 - David Deans
 
"How amazingly out of touch and strange are the comments sent in by readers about this extremely dangerous tackle made last Saturday. To claim that it has anything at all to do with the alleged dangerous tackle on O’Driscoll in the recent Lions tour utterly misses the point. To suggest that one unpunished incident requires silence over another is both childish and illogical. Tuqiri has been rightly found guilty of very dangerous play. That is the correct outcome. The only people ‘whinging’ about it seem to be on this message board."
 
 - Justin Lindsay (Japan)
 
"From time to time a player will let their standards drop and behave in a manner which could cause serious injury to another.  It is extremely rare that it is ever done deliberately and everyone would do well to understand this.
 
"The parallel with now infamous BOD incident is not lost on too many people (apart from the Kiwi's) but there should be no link or comparison.  After that incident irrespective of public statements, I think everyone in world rugby would have thought to themselves "This has to be stopped". 
 
"Yes it happened on Saturday but a reasonable punishment has been handed down.  That's what citing commissioners and rules are for.
 
"It happened, it has been dealt with... next game please."
 
- Rob Quinn

"It's comforting to hear the entire NZ population, led by their PM complaining about 'that' tackle on McCaw. I wish she'd been as vocal when two AB's dropped O'Driscoll on his head/shoulder. She's quick to complain but I didn't hear her mention the word 'consistency' on dangerous tackles - I wonder why?

"It's massively double standards. If the Lions Tour was anything to go by, Tuqiri shouldn't have been up in front of any board - let alone a suspension. Furthermore, what gives the Kiwi PM the right to start taking shots at the Wallabies, when the Kiwi's wouldn't accept Alistair Campbell's efforts for the Lions. In fact if I were the Wallabies I'd be in the press gunning for an official apology!

"Whatever happens, at least we know now that all roads lead back to the same conclusion, when it comes to the AB's - 'don't do as we do, do as we say'."

- Johannes Kennard (UK)

"So Willem Venter finally wakes up and realises that spear tackles are "dangerous" and liable to leave a player in a "vulnerable position"? Shame he only figured this out now. This is typical of the double standard of Southern-Hemisphere referees and fans. The Kiwi fans got stuck into Tuqiri but were disgracefully in denial when their own players pulled a much worse tackle during the last Lions tour, to the point of accusing O'Driscoll of whinging, when he was clearly injured by a dangerous tackle.
 
"I personally feel that Venter should never have been allowed to act as Citing Commissioner again. Better late than never but it really underlines how ridiculously easy he was on Tana Umaga and Keven Mealamu."
 
- Damien McKiver (Dublin)

"What a blatant hypocrite Graham Henry is. Maybe I’m missing something but the logic in thinking that it is acceptable for two All Blacks to spear tackle Brian O’Driscoll (and consequently put him out of Rugby for six months), but it unacceptable for McCaw to be speared, must be a bit flawed even to the most one-eyed of All Black fans.

"The common denominator was that both McCaw and O'Driscoll are genuinely world-class players who were deliberately targeted for some special treatment. There should be no place in rugby for this type of thuggery, and I’m glad Tuqiri has been banned. It does stick in my throat however when I remember how Henry defended Umaga and how pained the ‘angelic’ All Blacks were to be accused of committing an act foul play. Umaga and Mealamu should have been banned at the time, and the incident this weekend has only reinforced this view."

- Alan (London)

"I think it is a clear case of double standards - the All Blacks seem to get away with these kind of incidents - i.e. the hair-pulling of George Smith recently.

"The most important point for me - that nobody has focused on so far is the fact that Brain O'Driscoll did not have the ball when he was spear-tackled, making that in every sense a dangerous and illegal tackle.

"When one has the ball at least one is prepared to be dumped."

- Johann Hanekom (Netherlands)

"What a joke the citing process is in the Tri-Nations.

"Tuqiri deserved to be cited and suspended for his throw but what about other incidents that have happened during the Tri-Nations. The most obvious was Jerry Collins attempting to scalp George Smith in the Brisbane test by pulling repeatedly and ferociously at his dreadlocks. This occurred when he was off the ball and was obvious an attempt by the All Blacks to get to George Smith.

"So to hear the Kiwis winging about the Wallabies targeting Richie McCaw is a joke and shows they cannot handle what they dish out which makes them soft!"

- Sean Kearns (Upset Australian)
 
"What happened on Saturday was nowhere near as bad as what D'Arcy did against the Maoris for the Lions: when D'Arcy did the same thing but off the ball.
 
"I say this as a Lions' fan, not a Kiwi, before anyone accuses me of bias.
 
"This whole spear-tackle thing is blown out of all proportion by the media. If Tuqiri was to be banned at all, which he shouldn't be, it should have been maximum one game. Five is a joke.  
 
"Rugby is becoming a non-contact joke."
 
- Andrew Jackson (United Kingdom)

"It is all a bit strange. Lote Tuqiri is banned for eleven weeks for a dangerous tackle but Umanga and Mealamu got away with it last year on O'Driscoll - they ended his tour and could have broken his neck.

"Both times, the citing commissioner was Willem Venter.

"This year the victim was wearing black and last year the perpetrators were - this seems to be the only difference.

"Did Tana Umaga retire to take up the javelin?"

- Stephen Lark

"Both offences should have been punished and the illegal tackle on Brian O'Driscoll was clearly worse (that coming from an All Black fan) and both Mealamu & Umaga should have been cited and dealt with severely by officials, but you have to remember the official took Tuqiri's playing schedule into account so despite the sensational '11 week ban' headlines it is in effect a one match ban - the final Tri-nations match in South Africa for a tournament which has already been decided!"

- Pat Francis (Japan)

"A spear-tackle on a New Zealander that causes no injury and is not seen by the referee results in Willem Venter citing the tackler and a 10-week suspension for the latter.

"A spear tackle by two New Zealanders that causes injuries sufficiently serious that the tackled player is out of the game for weeks and is not seen by the referee results in no action at all by citing official Willem Venter. 

"Do I detect double standards being applied depending on nationality of spear tackler and spear-tackled?"

- Gordon Low (Oman)

"Isn't this Willem Venter the same chap who saw nothing wrong with Tana Umaga and Kevin Mealamo's tackle on Brian O'Driscoll?

"It strikes me that Lote Tuqiri is unlucky, looks as though the authorities are coming down hard because they got so much grief when they couldn't care before.

"I never thought I'd say this, but I actually feel sorry for an Australian, gosh that was hard to write.

"Lets hope no unlucky Welshmen in the not too distant future or my rehabilitation will be complete."
 
- Don Compton (London)

"Laughable, the New Zealand Prime Minister whinging about the Tuqiri tackle and the targeting of a key player by the opposition.

"I am afraid it is very much a case of reap what you sow. After the gang spear-tackle on Brian 'O Driscoll in the last Lions tour, for which Umaga/Mealamu should have received a 3 month bans for (very) dangerous play, the Kiwis can have no complaints if receiving a taste of their own despicable medicine.

"If you play dirty then don’t expect anybody to respect your sanctimonious bleating while you get similar case of treatment. Fortunately nobody was hurt this time, but maybe the New Zealanders need to engage what little brain power they can muster before firing of the hip and mouth on the pitch and in parliament."

- Ed Rainger (Birmingham)