Your views on Oliver's thoughts

New Zealand hooker Anton Oliver recently had a pop at England's supporters, calling them "ignorant and arrogant". Here are some of your views on the matter...

'ENGLAND RUGBY = KICK AND CLAP'

"What is wrong with this man? As a widely traveled 'Pom' and keen rugby supporter/player I have never had any problem with Australian or Kiwi supporters or indeed any of the Antipodean lads who I have played the game with.
 
"Twickenham, just as any other International stadium, has a healthy atmosphere of rivalry and competitive spirit......much the same as in Eden Park, Stade de France or any other stadium and its supporters that you care to mention.
 
"No, whatever way you look at it the main problem here is Mr. Oliver, I don't know what has happened to the man in his past to make him reach these extraordinary conclusions but he would do well to file the chips of both shoulders if he is to prove a worthy ambassador to his fine country over here."
 
- Paul Bartrop (London)

"As a New Zealander, living in the UK on a temporary basis, I agree with Anton's comments.

"I am not going to the game this weekend after my last experience at Twickers.  The England supporters are openly antagonistic to the All Blacks and anybody supporting them.  Not pleasant, in fact almost scary. 

"I wonder if there isn't a little bit of the football crowd mentality creeping in?"

- Michael McKenzie (Kiwi in London)

"Big words for a little man! I reckon his mum got him an English dictionary for his 40th birthday."

- Ed (Birmingham)
 
 "I do hope that chap has a visa..."
 
- Nick Harvey (UK)
 
"Having been to All Blacks tests matches at the Stade de France, Lansdowne Road, The Millennium Stadium and at Twickenham, over the last 6 years, I have to say that Anton does have a point. The fans in France were fantastic and we had a great night out mixing with them all.  Dublin, was equally as good and all the fans mixed in and had a great night out afterwards. Cardiff in 2004 (the 26-25 game) was the best test match atmosphere I’ve ever experienced. The Welsh are rugby people, they know the game inside out, they know the history and they respect what the opposition have done. Both countries have a rich rugby history and there is a massive respect from New Zealand for Welsh rugby.
 
"Contrasted with those wonderful experiences Twickenham was a terrible disappointment. The abuse from the English “fans” was constant, before during and after the game, but what made me laugh was the complete lack of understanding of what they were watching. The prime example was after twenty minutes. England had been hammering away on the All Blacks 22m line for a few minutes and just going across the field. Eventually they resorted to a drop kick, to uproarious applause from the English, the loudest cheer of the day. A drop goal, after twenty minutes! At first we were shocked, then started laughing, and finally when the English cheering died away our booing could be heard.  
 
"English papers love to “talk the talk” and the fans believe it all, but historically England haven’t “walked the walk”.  Woodward used to say “we know how to beat the All Blacks”. But as coach he did it twice, both times by less than 3 points.  What about all the absolute thrashings that were administered over the rest of his time in charge? The latest one is the English media calling the All Blacks chokers.  The only team to have made the semi finals in every World Cup are the All Blacks. England have never beaten the All Blacks in a World Cup. 
 
 "A bit of perspective, a better understanding of the game and some respect for the opposition don’t make you a lesser fan. But they sure as hell make you better hosts."
 
- Roger Carmen
 
"To be honest I feel quite angry at Anton Oliver's comments which he made regarding English rugby fans. I don't think he is in any position to make sweeping generalisations on their attitudes towards former colonies in the post-colonial era. I used to respect the man as both a player and a person (although I don't know a great deal about him), but comments like those which he made have not only made me lose a great deal of respect for him, but also think he is a little bit stupid.

"Surely by saying what he has he is only going to exacerbate the apparent problem which he claims England fans have towards New Zealand (not that I believe they have one, but he obviously does so his comments are ridiculous). And I can't help but think that the man is living in the past, some Aussies and New Zealanders may have a problem with England because they are part of our former Empire, but to my knowledge this does not make Englishmen look down at them. Although it apparently makes them resent us (else Oliver may have kept it shut). 

"Anyway, I personally don't know a single rugby fan in this country that thinks that New Zealand, Australia (or any other country for that matter) don't deserve to win rugby games. On most occasions they are won on merit.

"In my opinion, New Zealand's 23-19 victory last time out was a result of them having a better balanced side than England (amongst other things which I will not go into here). As such I can understand why the fans Oliver bought tickets for might have been shocked at the comments the Twickenham crowd made, had England have had a backline with more penetration they might well have won the game, New Zealand were not that much better than England on the day.
 
 "As a side comment, I would like to say that despite being an Englishman, New Zealand were always my closet second favourite international side. However, since the game in Dunedin when the infamous Simon Shaw red card incident occurred, I have not supported them in any way shape or form. This might sound petty and it probably is, but the sending off itself had nothing to do with it. It was the fact that at half time, after both sides giving their all and England down to 14 men for the majority of it, the New Zealand crowd booed the remaining England players off the field. Were they not rugby fans there to watch a competitive match? Because the 14 men had done their utmost to make it that.
 
 "And then Oliver has the gall to start calling England fans ignorant and arrogant. I disagree, but then I'm English. What I will say though is that my thoughts toward games of rugby are: may the best team win, and maybe Oliver could relay that message to a few of his New Zealand followers before slating English ones."
 
- John Stocks 
 
"Anton Oliver is 100 percent correct about the arrogant Twickenham crowd. 
 
"Firstly the fact they boo the Haka is typical of the snobby attitude of the posh rugby fan in England. No other countries supporters are as unsporting. They all look down on the likes of the working class in THIS country let alone people from abroad.
 
"The facts are that England can NEVER win a rugby match with Style and the snobs that frequent rugby in England are so jealous of any team that can.
 
"England rugby = kick and clap...FACT."

- Clive Peters

"Oliver is bang on, I am so sick of hearing who are world champions every time the subject of NZ v England comes up, you are only as good as your last game.

"England are in grave danger of becoming the laughing stock of international rugby if they keep losing and after the world cup what will you say then.

"Yes NZ can be called chokers in the world cup but we only have to win one more to lose that tag we are odds on favourites to win this one and the next one is in NZ so in five years time we should have three Rugby World Cups to our name and have won it more times than any other nation. I can’t wait until 2069 when I will be listening to English supporters telling me that they won the world cup in 2003."

- David Burgess (All Blacks fan)

"I personally don't hold the views Oliver associates with the England crowd. I am a member of the England crowd and also have a good few Aussie and Kiwi friends, I don't treat them any different from anyone else, i treat everyone the same and marvel at the skill levels of the Southern Hemisphere squads, even down at club level.

"Don't be fooled Mr Oliver, London isn't the centre of all things English, although anyone observing this country would think so.

"When you decide to come and play over here when you retire, make sure you come and play for a midland team.

- John Kennedy

"I am not a fan of New Zealand rugby, anyway not when they play against the Springboks, but I have the greatest respect for their teams. They never give up and it is an absolute pleasure watching them play.

"I agree that the statement Anton has made is true. English newspapers and their crowds will never spend a lot of their time writing or talking about how they got thrashed. They will always disguise it by having a look at the English team’s positives from a particular match whereas I feel that if you lost the match there are not too many positives to talk about, not from the losing team anyway.

"Last year when England got beaten by New Zealand the newspapers barely covered half a page of events from that match. When Australia thumped them a few months ago they did not spend too much time talking about that too.

"Just to add to that, they are still talking about how they won the Ashes which happened almost fourteen months ago? My advice to the English, move on and focus on the present. I hope the Southern hemisphere will once again prove that our rugby and competitions are far more superior than their  Northern counterparts."

- Cedric Frans (Bok supporter in London)

"I bet Anton is wishing he had kept his thoughts to himself. Why give the media the excuse they need to whip up the usual pressure before the game?

"Better to be a gracious guest, smile politely and let your play on the field do the talking.

"That said, as a Kiwi, I can see where he’s coming from. Check out the coverage by the likes of Paul Ackford and Stephen Jones after England lost to the All Blacks in last year’s Twickenham fixture. Apparently New Zealand weren’t very good and England were magnificent in defeat. Would they have been so fulsome towards the losers if the scoreline had been reversed?"

- Philip Tetley-Jones

"I think Anton Oliver should have a long look at the effluent he has been discharging.

"Firstly, it is not the crowd or the fans that are spinning the drivel that gets printed in the newspapers and other media, for that is the province of biased journalists or rose tinted pundits.

"We the fans were in no doubt as to who were the better team on the day or better team of the year for that matter.

"It’s funny that what Oliver considers ‘arrogant’ and ‘ignorant’ attitude is considered banter and the life blood of being a spectator by the mixed crowds at these games. There is something unique about a game in which the supporters will sing mild abuse to each other whilst sitting mingled in the stands. Oliver spend some quality time in the stands across the European Club game and you will see the effects of the above, bigger gates, livelier crowds and ultimately teams that will do what it takes to win for those crowds.

"I don’t see how the songs and banter directed south of the hemisphere is any different to that which is coming back from the south. Long may it continue, as I for one can’t imagine going to a game where no-one was getting behind their team.

"It’s not long ago that the English player’s were subject to pages of media criticism from the southern hemisphere press, articles suggesting that they were white orcs, a dad’s army, far too old or far too ugly to win a world cup. The media want to sell their publications so they write the shocking or the offensive to keep selling, that’s the media business."

"Lastly, any Englishman who is a fan of rugby knows that the All Blacks with the Springboks and later the Wallabies have long been the benchmark of rugby. I grew up in a period when a draw against any one of those teams was considered an achievement and was truly lucky enough to have seen my national team reach the summit of the sport.

"Anton Oliver wake up smell what you’re shoveling!"

- Leigh Powell