Did Noon's try really count?

Did he or didn't he? TV replays were inconclusive, and that was enough for video referee Monsieur Berdos to disallow what seemed, live at the ground, like a perfectly good score for England.

But then again, one try does not make up for a victory margin of 19 points, and most of our readers were unanimous in their verdict that New Zealand would have romped home with or without that early try...

"Undoubtedly the worst no-try decision I have ever seen. How could that try not be given?? Even NZ's most embarrassingly stupid rugby commentator Murray Mexted (who is mostly blind in his one eye) felt that the try was fair. Though, despite the ridiculous decision made by the ref/TMO, two further thoughts - firstly next time Jamie Noon has an unmarked player to his left will he pass it to absolutely ensure the try is scored (stung by his own greed?), and secondly given the try he was awarded later in half came from a blatant forward pass, was justice done?"

Victor, New Zealand

"No doubt England will take comfort from their disallowed try conveniently overlooking the forward pass from Allen that gave Noon his real try.

"The AB forwards were better in the scrums, the mauls, the drives and for once they got their line out right.

"Where do England go from here? Well at least they were prepared to throw the ball around which is a positive.They can build on that but it might not be sufficient to regain the Webb-Ellis next year.

"Great to see the end of the constant chatter to the ref the English were so fond to engage in."

Gerry Portegys, New Zealand

"England lost heavily and NZ deserved their win.  The disallowed try was in the 5th minute, plenty of time for England to re-group - what do you expect from a Frenchman!? There should be no 'moral victory' talk as there was last year, a loss is a loss and we should be humble in defeat.

"England should take quite a few positives out the games and get ready for the Boks and Argy Bargies.  After this loss, a good performance is essential in the next game.  Allen was exposed a couple of times but there will be plenty more to come from him - he should not be dropped like Tait was a couple of years ago."

Terry Scott, Australia

"Seems to me that BBC, as host broadcaster, let everybody down - there weren't the camera angles available for the TMO to judge that a try had clearly been scored.  And there was sufficient doubt (Nonu & Jack both trying to get hands under the ball) that it had to be referred.

"Oddly enough, Inverdale and his merry men chose not to highlight this element!  Nor did they refer back to Scotland's similar event when a try had "obviously" been scored after a driven maul during last year's grand slam tour - in this era players know that they have to make the referee's job as easy as possible, just as Scotland learned that the TMO has to be able to see the grounding so Noon should recognise that an unmarked man outside would make a safer score.

"But don't get me started on the bias and incompetence of the BBC commentators!"

Richard White

"I thought it was almost certainly a try, and it would have boosted England a lot to get it at that early stage.

"However, no-one beats the All Blacks in the 4th minute of a game, and it would not have changed the final outcome. NZ won by a clear margin of 21 points and always seemed to have something in reserve in the second half."

Thomas Fothringham, Perth

"In a strange way it felt like progress, though not in time for this World Cup. Last year we played well against the All Blacks and could have won the match, this year we lost badly.

"However, scoring three tries to four against the All Blacks (four each if you count the Noon effort, which was hard to call on the video but looked like a try live), and none by a forward, shows progress in our wide play, last year our back play was error strewn and lacked scoring ability. We also conceded fewer penalties but Hodgson's kicking remains atrocious and was a major factor on the scoreline.

"If we play Hodgson, we need to use him as an attacking runner - his strength - and not just get him to pass or kick every ball he receives. With Balshaw not the strongest player in the world, a dedicated kicking full-back and retaining Hodgson as an attacking fly-half would get my vote. Balshaw gave away the first try with an aimless kick and despite being genuinely pacey he kicked to touch every time he got the ball, the All Blacks scored at least once running from their own 22, which showed us how to do it."

James Wyatt

"As an ardent England fan, there can be no ifs, no buts, no bleating about the TMO's admittedly bizarre decision, England just weren't good enough on Sunday and New Zealand were way too clinical.

"Fair play to the ABs - they ruthlessly took every half chance, and put 40 points on us at home without delivering a dominating performance!"

Ed Walters, UK

"I am a South African fan and have always enjoyed seeing the Northern hemisphere teams get beaten by the more adventurous southern teams. I was however disgusted by the decision not to allow a try when it was clear to everyone who watched, that it was a legitimate try. I fear that the match official was just too afraid to make a decision and gave the advantage of the little doubt he had to the defending team. Much will be said about the difference that try would have made in the whole dynamic of the game."

Walter Jackson, South Africa

"If Richie McCaw wants to play for England, why doesn't he just ask instead of lying on our side of the ruck for half the match?"

Ben Speller, England (we assume)

"Ahh, yes. That try. Or, should I say, the try that wasn’t. How convenient. Now we can read press reports about how if it had not been for that try, England would have most surely won. Or if only that lock hadn’t been binned unfairly, or that unfair interpretation of the accidental offside rule, or the cut of the grass… Because let’s face it, there’s always something…to help us avoid facing some extremely unpleasant home truths. And that damn ref was French!"

Rob, London

"It is hard to imagine that with Noon’s weight on top of the ball no part of the ball was grounded, obstructed only by a single outstretched arm flat on the ground under it but at right angles to the forward motion of Noon’s body and the tightly-held ball.  Be that as it may, Noon should have passed the ball. An All Black would have." (you obviously didn't watch Luke McAlister's solo effort in the Tri-Nations - ed.)

Chris Bennett, California

"For all the whining about the disallowed 'try',a few very important factors should be taken into consideration.
 
1) Earlier in the move the pass to Martin Corry is clearly forward
2) The pass to Noon himself is also forward, although less so than the earlier pass to Corry.
3) It's no different to a player diving over into a mass of forwards. If the video ref cannot clearly see the ball,he doesn't usually award those either.
4) I personally wish they had awarded it, because it's a given the English would whine afterwards if not. Still, there's always something for them to complain about isn't there."
 
Jason Harrison, New Zealand

"Good to see Eng prepared to biff the ball around and have a shot. At least England now appreciate that forward dynamism is the way of the present/future.  Most Eng fans blamed their backs last year, but that was rubbish – you have to have dynamic forward play, with pace and aggression producing quick ruck ball to shift the defensive line, then you’re talking. They looked much more threatening than last year, but got a hiding!  Thing is, NZ love the game to open right up, they don’t seem to like the trench-warfare stuff, despite the advancements in the forwards.  Can’t believe Eng weren’t awarded that early try. Also, it kind of looked weird Andy Robinson having his employer peering over his shoulder as things unravelled."

Stephen Hodge, New Zealand

"NZ were the better team, but at the end of the day the ref won the first half and England won the second.
 
"When all is said and done the All Blacks are always a bunch of chokers. If you're going to bet on them for the world cup then don't bet now as odds will get longer, as they start to choke as it gets closer.
 
"But that said an emphatic  All Black win (on points at least) . I think English supporters will take a lot from this match. Although the score reflected almost exactly what everone thought it was some unbelievable refereeing decisions that made it so close."

Chris Brear, UK

"While it is clearly a matter of opinion and not of fact, maybe the TMO thought that Nonu did enough to prevent the grounding. Maybe he did - maybe he didn't. It's something only Nonu and Noon know. To be honest Noon did not look completely convinced after scoring, and besides he has now got to say to the media that he did because otherwise he might be found fault with (quite reasonably), for not passing the ball to the wide open man and taking on three All Blacks together. We shouldn't be too repentant when bad play goes unrewarded."

Shanaka, Sri Lanka