Did Robinson save his skin?

This weekend's reaction from our readers to the England-South Africa match consisted mainly of astonishment leading from the Butch James replacement, a lucky Martin Corry, a questionable refereeing performance why Jake White still has his job, and whether Andy Robinson will still have his next week. For a more detailed analysis, have a look below...

"Gosh that swiping axe was close! Better warn Jake..."

I think the press are doing themselves a great disservice in their almost hysterical hype over Jake White. Jake is doing exactly what he said he wanted to do on this tour; experiment with a group of young players to broaden our base while giving other players a break. I think it is time we had that kind of brave thinking. Remember when Jake became coach he said he was going to stick with a team and not chop and change as had been happening. We applauded that but Jake has realised (a bit slowly maybe) that he can't blindly keep that approach all the way to the world cup, so he has changed tactic. Well done Jake!
 
Why can't the press get behind the guy in a thoughtful analysis of what is being achieved with each match in the bigger context of the building of a squad? There is so much you could say. Such as player x or combination y worked, or did not work, this time; we have made this find and that one (good and not so good finds). Given that player z is back home what does this, or that, find mean for the team/squad as a whole. And so on. Look beyond each game to the bigger game plan which Jake is surely doing. If you, the press, do this, then you at least you are getting on a par with the coach
 
Remember when Jake was first made coach everyone was saying what a good choice it was because he was such a great tactician. Well he is now being a very brave tactician and judging his success can only come when the full plan has played out. That is after this tour is over and we bring the whole team together again.
 
So come on press and public lets have a little grey matter applied to things. Let's see if you can be really thought provoking not reaction or emotion provoking as seems to be the case at the moment. Some maturity and dignity please!

- Kevin Rogers (Randburg)

I had to laugh when I read Barry Bousfield's letter, in particular his comments about Steve Walsh "Is it because the little boy in him watching his team lose the 1995 World Cup is subconsciously there. I think so!".

Come on Barry, get real! I know it must be frustrating being a Springbok supporter these days, but let's get a few things straight:

- Most Kiwis think Steve Walsh is a peacock and a pratt too.
- Yes, even with the rise of the Wallabies and the Springboks not being as dominant as they once were, the Springboks are still the "old enemy" for most All Blacks supporters and we hate losing to them.
- Yes, losing the 1995 World Cup final hurt.

But most importantly, regardless of what Kiwis' opinions of other teams or countries are,

- No Kiwi would EVER, EVER help an English sports team win, regardless of who they're playing.

There's a saying in NZ "I support two teams: NZ and anyone playing Australia." It's not true though - if most Kiwis were being honest, they'd replace Australia with England. Regardless of the ref's performance, the Springboks should have been able to beat this England team. But it wasn't their top team and they lost convincingly to Ireland the week before so this game was always going to be a tight one that could have gone either way. If Walsh had a shocker, it would have been because he wanted to be popular with the home crowd rather than being anti-Springbok.

To blame all the Springboks' problems on a Kiwi ref and drag up the past is ridiculous.
But hey, feel free to carry on that way without addressing the real problems facing the Springboks and I'm sure these results will continue.

- Matt (New Zealand)

It's not my country, it's not even a traditional rival of my country, but if they get rid of Jake White you've got to ask what the hell is going on back in South Africa. His team is the only team in the world to beat the All Blacks this year. They beat Australia comfortably at home. They lost in Australia, but there's no disgrace in that, a lot of teams lose to Australia IN Australia.

The leave virtually a whole team at home, face an Ireland where just about all Irish backs have more caps than the entire SA back division. There were some odd choices in the selection, and yes, that's White's choices, but he learnt stuff about his players. Look at what Ireland did to a much more experienced Australia this weekend, in far worse conditions.

Still minus a whole team of first choice players, several of them pretty much shoe-ins for any country's side he plays what is supposed to England's best, and got unlucky to lose. Is White personally responsible that de Villiers got greedy and didn't pass? No. Is he personally responsible that James missed 3 kicks? No.

I like Steve Walsh as a referee, but got to ask what de Villiers did that got him sin binned that was worse than Cohen, and wonder why a late, high tackle on a kicker didn't get a yellow card. I suspect he had it right, but in the bits I saw it looked like there should have been two more (OK, seeing England lose again would have warmed the cockles of my Welsh heart).

Andy Robinson on the other hand... much, much worse position I feel. If there was someone to come in, he'd be going. England have just refused to perform at all well. Yes, they won. They won ugly and lucky. A bad win is better than a bad loss, a win where the team play poorly and win is better than one where they play poorly and lose. But if you were Rob Andrew, are you seeing any advancement if you're honest? I still think he'll stay. There isn't a choice for replacing him floating around is there?

- Lewis Pike (Wales)

I would still like to know how Martin Cory got away with his late charge on Butch James with nothing more than a brief, can we call it a warning? If that was a South African player on Charlie Hodgson, there would have been different repercussions'. Maybe it is wrong to speculate, but we all know the truth. We have had a player red carded at Twickenham for the same reason, except Johnny rolled around like a Football player. Something needs to be done about SA carrying this tag when everyone else gets away with it. Let's also admit Steve Walsh and Paul Honiss are not the most loving referee's towards the Springboks.
Or shall we say the most consistent ref's when it comes to calling on both sides.

Referee's should also be "judged" on their performance! Cited is too strong a word, as this would bring more than one ref to the game. We don't want it to become a free for all.

- Peter Bennett

From a South African perspective this wasn't nice but a lot of good can be taken from it. Two excellent wing performances by Habana and Ndungane with Oliver providing some nice stepping and great defence. Jean de Villiers was very good notwithstanding some blunders. And Butch - you beauty - after Andre Pretorius came on we were back to our old way sand it was blindingly obvious what you bring for us. What intelligence he brings and with Francois Steyn in as well, the mindless backline rugby has just gone and replaced by some lovely rugby we can all enjoy. Wonderful!
 
At last we now also have a front row that doesn't embarrass us so thumbs up to B J and van der Linde for that. One gripe though, why can we still not keep the ball for any length of time?
 
On refs, I like Steve Walsh so no grudges but refereeing has got to acknowledge that these refs are seriously influenced by home crowds there can be no two ways about it. I just can't see how it is equitable to show a yellow card for a technical knee on the ground offence to Jean de Villiers, when Corry and Richards get no more than a penalty for seriously dangerous acts. That just isn't fair. Forget about the knock on that led to the final England try SA supporters - Andre Pretorius cocked up and that was the main offence and let's hope that try was the biggest favour England did for us in that hopefully we now will keep intelligent fly halves and forget Pretorius.
 
- Michael Byrne

After a poor performance in Ireland I wowed never to watch Springbok rugby again, but being a South African I find it hard to stick to...however, now after the England game I will be taking my Springbok jersey and handing it to the first blind person on the street - hopefully it is good enough against the cold, cos for rugby its a dead loss!!
 
A few ''whys' during the game against England came up to me, and hopefully somebody can answer me:

Why did Martin Corry stay on the pitch after a late/high charge on James?
Why was the scrum-half replacement for England not yellow carded for mountaineering off the ball?
Why was De Villiers sent to the sin bin but every other player got away with it?
Take nothing away from England, they played well and deserved a win, but it was like watching Johnny Vegas chasing Chris Moyles, the game never gained any momentum!
If the clever people are so clever (not including Jake White) why did the best winger in the world (Habana) never get the ball?
Why did Jake White (hereafter refer to as the lown) replace Butch James with Pretorius who kicked all the possession away?
Why did Hilton Lobberts have a chance? He is clearly not Springbok quality and did not even impress in the U21's, clearly he is just a yellow card waiting to happen, yet another player that thinks he is bigger than the game!
 
And then the biggest question of them all, WHY is Rassie Erasmus and Naka Drotske left at home after proving what they can do with the Cheetahs? (who only have 1 player in the Bok team, heavens knows why!). They would be a much better option than the clown!
 
And to finish, now that my Bok jersey is outside for the drunk people to spit on, long live ALL BLACK RUGBY!!!

- Mr Van Rensburg

I wonder what is happening to English sport when our professional commentators appear to turn a blind eye to any dirty and foul play by English players but accentuate any slight indiscretion by the opposition?

The same seems to the case with dodgy refereeing decisions!

Walsh refereed SA out of the game, Corry should have been sent off and should be looking at a hefty ban. Cohen should have been sin binned on at least four occasions for his foul and dirty play on and off the ball.

I wonder if both will be cited today? If Corry is not cited then for me English rugby will be lost down the road of commercialism and the game that I love gone, and lost for ever.

Notwithstanding whether Corry is cited what an opportunity for the RFU to step forward and discipline Corry themselves and show the world that there is no place in rugby for cynical thugs such as Corry!

I remember a certain English prop who used his knee on an opponent following a kick-off at Twickenham being disciplined by the RFU.
 
- Des Egan

I am amazed that England won this game, as I found South Africa to be a far more attractive and inventive team, whose defence at times was magnificent.

In England we should be considering the fact that this not a lot more than a Springbok 'A' team to a certain extent, with people like Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha, Schalk Burger, Joe van Niekerk and Os du Randt, they would have been a very different proposition. I would guess there were only three automatic choices in the Bok line-up, those being Habana, de Villiers and Smit, although a few certainly did their best to play themselves into contention.

To have won by just two points, is that enough to be happy about? I am not so sure.

- Andrew Robertson

Jake White was so alarmed that this time might beat England that he openly sabotaged this by kicking off Butch James [playing his best rugby ever] and bringing on the totally ineffectual Pretorius. Then just when you need experience to win and hold ball off comes Cronje and on comes the Lobberts who knows nothing about the game.
If Jake White is not doing this destruction of SA rugby to show up the quota system for the racism that it is, then he must be fired now.

- Leslie Udwin

Hey, is Jake White suffering from some form of masochism. James off/Pretorius on, while James is doing a superb job and there you go. Poor decision Jake. Bring Mallet back!

- John Slavin

Come on, get serious!
There are rugby games and then there is professional rugby. If a team play's bad, people always look for an escape goat. These players are professionals and if they can't perform, replace them. 

Jake white has the best record of all the coaches in Springbok rugby history and is almost facing the sack. That is why South African rugby is where it is now, because it is always been if the players play bad we sack the coach. Sack the players for a change.

- Martin Bornman

Maybe I am biased but it seems to me that referees target South African dirty play with a lot more gusto than any other country. I mean three years ago a high tackle at Twickenham and the Springbok gets a red  card.
 
Today Corry tackles Butch James late and high and a stiff arm tackle and he gets a warning, not even a yellow.  I find that unexplainable.
 
As for the try a year ago when the ref told John Smit to talk to his players?

- Ben Barrell (UK)

What a shocker!  What do the South Africans have to do to win away from home? 

White’s substitutions were diabolical. Had Butch James not left the pitch then perhaps it’s the South Africans that would be celebrating. 

Talking of celebrations, what a pile of rubbish from the English and their ridiculously fickle supporters at the final whistle. Joe Worsley praying to God! And all the smiles and stuff to go with it, what exactly do they have to celebrate? 

They played a horrendously crap South African team and yet they celebrate as if they've just won the Webb Ellis trophy. Get a grip you Poms, this SA team is their second team. Just consider who they left at home: Os, Matfield, Montgomery, Bakkies Botha, De Wet Barry, Watson, Floors and ten dozen other new caps that would have done better. 

As for the subs….it really grates me when the South African coaching team get things so wrong!  Why take Butch James off (apart from being tired)?  He kept England at  bay.

In the end, had Jean De Villiers passed instead of trying to go for glory himself, had Butch James got his kicks over and had the whole South African team not dropped the ball in precious situations, then South Africa would be the one’s celebrating and that twit Robinson would be gone.

Bring on the All Blacks next year in the Rugby World Cup 2007!

- Trev Opie

Jake White needs to tell it as it is and stop blaming everyone else for his problems. He is the one who chose this touring party and knowingly left many of the best Springbok "reserves" back home. He has again chosen to tour without adequate depth at fly half, kicking cover and open side flank. And again today he exposed his poor judgement and lack of rugby management ability. I feel really sorry for the South African players. Who else is to blame for his poor win record except himself when he keeps making basic errors of rugby judgement before and during every game. The incompetence of it all is staggering. South Africa needs a complete change at the top - the entire Springbok coaching and selection team needs to be replaced with more professional coaching management who understand the basics of rugby union better than White, McIntosh etc do.

- Rob (UK)

England should feel relieved Jake White chose to replace a fly-half who was "in the groove" with one who had shown shaky form over past outings; I always thought you didn't change a winning team. Enormously disappointed how South Africa managed to lose a game they had won.
 
I also reflect on the treatment Labuschagne received from another New Zealand ref those years ago when he hit Wilkinson late; obviously South African fly halves warrant significantly less protection; fabulous double standards.
 
- David Roth (Cambridge)

Well, England scrape a victory against a patchwork Springbok side. They are very much in trouble, what would have Os and co been doing to them today had they been here? I have been hearing all week of how England and South Africa are in the same position, don't kid yourselves. The Boks are a far superior side and have achieved far bigger results this year that England could never have done, for one, the Boks are much tougher on their home soil for a start. The fact is that England do not possess the players, the quality to be a top side, let alone have depth in these areas. South Africa on the only hand make ridiculous selections, leaving quality players with jaws dropping back at home. The fact of the matter is they are in completely different positions. Jake Whites only criticisms are with regard to his selections, anyone who was paying any attention to what was going on would know this.

He is in trouble because his poor selections are letting him down and he has nowhere to turn. Leaving players like Luke Watson, Kabamba Floors, Du Plessis, Ryno Van Der Merwe, Andries Bekker, Wian Du Preez...But then choosing the likes of Van Den Berg and Sephaka, and using Rossouw as a flanker.

The truth is the Boks who played England today are much weaker than anyone outside of South Africa is willing to admit. Robinson and England are stuffed, even if he was a great coach it would be the same. So keep these things in mind before blagging how England made a great show of strength in defeating South Africa and prevented eight straight defeats, because the truth is, Jake handed it to them on a plate by selecting an inept side. They have only postponed their decline for a little while longer, and there is nowhere to hide.

- Bok supporter

I have just watched the England South Africa game and am appalled at the subtle and subconscious bias shown by the referee. Come on you rugby experts have a look at the videos again and admit it. That peacock Walsh is an absolute disgrace. Is it because the little boy in him watching his team lose the 1995 World Cup is subconsciously there. I think so! What do you think. No doubt every Saffer in the world would agree with me! Well done England but you are still pretty ordinary. Better luck next time South Africa; just pray you don't have a Kiwi ref!
 
- Barry Bousfield

Crumbs of comfort for England their win showing great character if little else, yet against an under strength Boks that with an ounce of whit and a kicker would have still won the game; as it was England still required some favours from the officials, Villiers carded, Cueto stripping a ball illegally in the tackle while sprawled in front of his posts, Moody knocking on before England winning a penalty, still that's the nature of the game.
 
On the evidence of the last two games they might be tempted to revert back to a 10 man game based around their pack, the backline rally isn't going well, indeed Phil Vickery endorses such a move.
Fine you beat up on nations with more modest reserves of beef but honestly is that what you want for your game? Plus you'll get drubbed by teams that can match your brawn, the wheels were beginning to work loose on that particular chariot even on it's ride to World Cup glory.
 
England need to find a more comprehensive style for the whole squad, and a new song please, the dubious origin of Swing Low.. and its bloody wretched delivery surely has the whole world wanting a change! 

- Nick Parry-Jones (France)